Attention All active performing bands.

[DuncAgain]

For years now we've all been happily accepting low rates for our performances because we didn't know any better and were just happy to be playing on stage.

Adelaide venues can afford to pay alot more.  We all grossly undervalue our own worth as bands and it gets around and then it becomes the standard.  Piddly rates like $150 per band which barely equals out to be even worth the hassle once divided.

If we demand more, we will get more.  Value the worth of your own band.  How many people come to your gigs?  How many people can you keep bringing back each time?  Is your music intersting enough to garner new fans?

If you answered positively to these questions then it's time to get the confidence to demand more from your venues, even if it means walking away from a few shows.

Bands that keep playing the same small shows for the same small amounts will become disillusioned and give lackluster performances which will reflect an equally dissolutioned crowd that will stop coming to shows that will give disillusioned venues.  It's a bad cycle and the only way to break it is to stand up and take what's ours.  We should eb getting at least $400 per band at bare minimum.  In the grand scheme of things, it really isn't that much to ask for.

Don't be afraid, ask for more out of your venues.  More often than not, they will accept.  It just becomes harder the more we accept such low rates because they become used to it.

This very well could be the difference between going nowhere and making something of your music.

[mondayitissucks]

While I agree that musicians are severely underpaid, there are a few things working against us. Musicians demanding higher rates of pay and higher standards were one of the reasons that pubs started having DJs in there instead. Also, if a band starts demanding high amounts of money for gigs it can lead to a mass boycott, regardless of popularity. I recall a certain Adelaide band whose name I won't mention who would easily pull at least 300 punters a show started demanding $900 a gig, within 3 months they couldn't get a gig anywhere.

[DuncAgain]

While I agree that musicians are severely underpaid, there are a few things working against us. Musicians demanding higher rates of pay and higher standards were one of the reasons that pubs started having DJs in there instead. Also, if a band starts demanding high amounts of money for gigs it can lead to a mass boycott, regardless of popularity. I recall a certain Adelaide band whose name I won't mention who would easily pull at least 300 punters a show started demanding $900 a gig, within 3 months they couldn't get a gig anywhere.

I have some very concerning news for you regarding those DJs.  They get anywhere between $300-$900. About 3 times as much a band does.  They can literally fly in with nothing more than a player and a music library andget $3000.  Now, the problem with that one band is that they WERE the only band doing it.  This kind of thing requires the co-operation of many, many bands.  So it is a long shot.  I believe it is still an issue worth raising though.

[Almost like your life]

I sort of agree with you, however, some musicians are quite well paid. My SAE lecturer earns something like $8,000 over 3 months from playing 2 shows a week. He plays in pubs and venues like that, but does covers more than original material.

I think your point is that metal bands get underpaid. Which I sort of agree with, but in my opinion it all comes down to how dedicted you are to making money from music. I think performing in one band and expecting to make a living/decent money is a dream 99% of us won't achieve. However one could easily form a cover band and play in pubs 3 nights a week AS WELL as playing in a metal band, that would provide a livable income.

The problem with us metal bands is we don't get enough people coming to the shows. If we had kickass attendance numbers we could easily ask for more and would probably get more anyway.

So basically I think what it comes down to is this, if anyone wants their band to get more money, support the scene that is supposed to support you.

[sinistrous]

Its no good asking a venue for X amount of cash if they are never going to make it back.

DJ's got paid more because they pulled a crowd.
it was not uncommon for a non advertised small party in the middle of a public pine forest to frequently pull at least 200 - 300. it was all fun and there was no over heads like a venue (ie: no insurance, no security costs, no taxes, no payoffs for local council noise restrictions etc)
but the main reason they had large crowds was because it was fun, it was a good atmosphere and I know it is a cliché but it was “about the party”

[Spikes Red]

And this is why 'cover bands' work so well, because they have a party atmosphere and breaks in between sets. 
With full Metal gigs, it is the music and nothing but the music.
Even while bands are setting up, there is music played.
This leaves people with no time to talk and chill.
Let's face it, you've worked all week, you want to go out saturday night and have a few drinks with mates, chill out.  You decide to catch some bands.  There goes most of your night, with little opportunity to chat and catch up.


If all the bands get together and ask for more money, don't forget, that all the venues are going to get together and say no more gigs here. Just saying.

If bands ask more, venues might put door prices up, there will be people who won't be able to afford that.  Bringing less punters, will only mean venues rethinking the value of having bands play.


Venues don't necessarily make more money on gig nights, because where people might actually sit round chatting and drinking normally, they can't do that with metal bands playing unless the venue has different sections. I guess that's where Enigma works, with all it's different areas.


The other big issue to be looked at, in my opinion, is clashing of gigs.
A couple of saturdays ago, there were 5 gigs on the one night..........with nothing on the friday night.
I WOULD'VE gone to probably 3 of them.  Of course, I could only get to one.
People only have so much money and time.  With so many bands gigging and so few venues and much clashing, there are ultimately going to be bands that miss out.


Having said all that, (purely my thoughts for what they are worth) I do agree that it would be awesome to see bands get paid more.
I understand the work that goes into it all, but you have to look at whether you are just a bunch of guys having fun with your hobby, that hopefully pays for itself.
Or whether you are the next big band to come out of Australia.

[DuncAgain]

Then I think the answer lies in better venues.  It's possibly also why so many big bands skip Adelaide for shows.  I suggest people start writing in to the arts minister about it.  I am.

[sinistrous]

i dont know,
need to find a way to work with what is available and go from there.

suppose it comes down to what do people want from their possibly only night off,
and how to create your target audience.

[manhater]

I'm not jewish so I don't place that much value on money 

[sinistrous]

well it not all about cash

its about giving people something to do on a weekend other than sitting around wondering why nothing happens in a small backwater town.

[DuncAgain]

Well, fair enough if people disagree with me.  I'm certainely not going to turn tail and delete my thread because of differences in opinion.  I think it's a good pathway to other discssions if nothing else and if we all put our heads together we could accomplish great things.

[Kejumonyet]

Money doesn't matter to me at all - when we play shows I frequently that we even get paid at all. However, some cash behind you really makes it easier to get merch and CDs out, and to promote gigs properly. If the venues provide sound engineers and do their own promotion it makes sense that they pay bands less - if they don't, then it doesn't. Typically if an originals band is playing it will stop a lot of non-gig people from hanging around in a bar or pub, especially if it's a inaccessible style like metal or punk.

I reckon the gig clashes are the biggest problem in Adelaide, though. Setting up a not-for-profit organisation that stays in contact with both bands and venues, supplies advise and promotion and fights for higher payment and better rights for bands would be a good action, if anyone had the time, money and organisational skills to set such a thing up.

[DuncAgain]

Setting up a not-for-profit organisation that stays in contact with both bands and venues, supplies advise and promotion and fights for higher payment and better rights for bands would be a good action, if anyone had the time, money and organisational skills to set such a thing up.

That is what I am hoping to do.

[Hypnos]

That'd be really useful. Saturday was a good example of that - three seperate gigs (counting the squatters punk gig, and there was a small-mid gathering of metalheads there for that one) on in the city and one down south, splitting the crowd 4 different ways. Not many ways to turn solid money in a city the size of Adelaide when your crowd has to pick between that many potential concerts.

[Eddie]

Asking for more money from a venue when you can only pull 10-15 at a time (which only makes the Squatter's look half full) is a bit of a kick in the teeth to the venues really. They have a fuckload more in the way of costs to cover than the bands playing ever will have to. As a sound engineer I'll get paid between $200-$300 for one night's work...but I'm there from 6pm-2am. that's EIGHT HOURS WORK. A band gets paid $150 for doing an hour of sound check/load in and 30-40 mins of actual performance...

As far as venue size goes, Adelaide has lost many large venues to pokies and DJs.

There are also many bands out there who expect that the venue will do all the promoting for a gig. If bands really want to get more people to a gig, they should be handing out flyers, maybe putting up posters, posting on social media sites, on other forums, ANYWHERE. As Red pointed out however, many gigs clash with each other these days, and usually results in small crowds.

DJs are paid more because, as someone pointed out, they pull crowds. They're also there from early on in the night, sometimes until the venue itself shuts. Most bands these days don't even stick around for the other bands on the same bill. Cover bands have this same principle. They usually play all night and play songs that people know and love, and take requests for favourites. They can afford to be paid more.

You want more money from venues? Start pulling decent crowds, say goodbye to any sort of decent drink rider, promote gigs better, start talking with other bands as to try and not clash with every other gig, and petition the government to get better public transport on Friday nights (as this will allow more people to get out to a gig on the night). Some venues such as the cranker seem to be taking a stance against metal music in general from stories I've heard over the past few months. Metal bands demanding more money will give venues like them all the reason they need to stop letting them play shows.

In summation: demanding more money that can't afford to be paid is both foolish and dangerous to the health of the metal scene. We need to start working harder at breathing life into a scene that might as well be on life support.